We Don’t Need Chivalry Anymore. But You’re Still Paying for Dinner

By Christina On September 17, 2012 · 28 Comments · In Me Being Me, Random Relationship Stuff, Single Mom Relationships, Uncategorized, Wisdom You Won't Use Anywhere

I was considering taking a hiatus from blogging about dating because it seems to be pissing people off and may actually be driving away any potential suitors. That’s what I’m telling myself anyway. Yes, I did just blame my blog for being single. Better than blaming the entire universe like I used to.

But then I thought I should cover one more thing before I move on to cats or something…men love cat blogs. ¹

I was out with a friend recently and among other things, chivalry came up. (For about 2 seconds anyway. We weren’t exactly holding a symposium.) He mentioned friendly acts like holding the door for women.

“Well, that’s just polite,” I told him. “I hold the door for people also.” (Otherwise you let it smash into their head and laugh about it. But that isn’t nice.)

Then, while overdosing on too much bread and spinach artichoke dip, we agreed on the awkwardness of other supposed chivalrous acts, such as opening the car door.

I immediately imagined this and thought yeah, if you try to open my car door, I’m probably going to mace you. And then I may key your face with my car keys. Because I’m wondering what the hell you’re doing on my side of the car.

Obviously, I imagine myself always being the driver.

Which made me determine that there are a couple reasons we don’t need chivalry anymore and should let it go the way of other stupid shit we once believed in. ²

1. The acts that were once considered chivalrous are now acts of politeness and common consideration expected of both genders. Although chivalry is attributed to “knights” and “gentlemen” we are at a point now where women are also, in the best interests of independence, obligated to put forth our own bit of chivalry. I’ve never met a knight but I assume that all men should behave as gentlemen…and all women as civilized ladies. However, the word “chivalry” only applies to men, which makes it archaic and sort of bull shit (as a word, anyway).

And then he literally slayed some shit…

2. Besides being expected from both genders, many of the assumed acts of chivalry are outdated. One being the opening the car door thing. Back a billion years ago, when women weren’t allowed to work or make their own money or drive cars and had to ask permission to leave the house, we had no choice but to expect things like unlocking the front door for us, opening the car door and paying the dinner tab.

Which brings me to dinner. Not too long after our conversation on the awkwardness of chivalry, we ended up squabbling about who was paying. I felt it was my responsibility because I had asked him out. ³ He, for some reason was adamant about paying. ⁴

Now that I think about it, I’ve been out many times where it never crossed my mind to pay. There were also times where if asked to pay, I would have, but probably wouldn’t have seen the person again. I’ve rarely gone dutch because the whole thing is awkward. I have no set of rules when it comes to paying – sometimes it seems to be the right thing to do- but for the most part I expect men to pay and they actually want to. Why is that?

Do we need chivalry? Or just parts of it?

And who’s supposed to pay for dinner, anyway?

Hello, lover. ↩
Like beating kids with sticks. ↩
Or maybe I was high. ↩
Or maybe he was high. ↩

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Tagged with: chivalry is dead bitches • dating • eating too much bread • friending • relationships

http://chopperpapa.com Kyle Bradford

CM, I have total blogger love for you and you know this…but I got to tell you..this wishy washy thing on the gentlemen/politeness/chivalry is KILLING ME! It’s become a situation where men are now like cocktails and so many of these women are behind the bar trying to get just the right mixture wasting countless amounts of time and sending mixed signals to men everywhere…but feeling justified in doing so because they “don’t want to settle” — whatever. She wants him to be a gentlemen, but not too much of one, she wants him to be a tad bit domineering, but only at a time when she says so. He should open the building door — but not the car do. What?!?!?

Did these women’s mommas not tell them that no matter what their Disney princess movies may have led them to believe they can’t have their cake and eat it to?

Ladies, if a man wants to open your car door for you and you have become so egotistical and arrogant that you take offense to this gesture of kindness…you deserve to be alone and should stay home drinking 2 buck Chuck from Trader Joe’s and watching reruns of Sex and the City indefinitely and keep out of the dating pool.

Ok, I’m done now…your face is full of awesomeness CM, rock on!
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  Wait wait wait. It isn’t that I don’t want you to open the car door, I’m saying it would be strange if I’m driving and you’re on my side opening the door. I’m sure I wouldn’t REALLY key your face, Chopper. And are you talking shit about 2 Buck Chuck? Nuh uh…
  - ken|ni
    
    Of course you’re driving…
    - http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
      
      hahahah….especially while driving
- Cari Wegner
  
  Are you saying women should settle? If we are talking in extreme-isms, which you are, that kind of behavior is the reason why women stay in bad relationships, or abusive ones. Because we have the words, “you’re not worth it” hammered into our brains over and over. The only issue I can see in your first paragraph is one of lack of communication. I believe I CAN have my cake and eat it too, I will not settle for anything less. I am also not to high and mighty to think I’m all that, I’m terribly flawed too. “Chivalry” can be just as much of a mixed signal sometimes.
Cari Wegner

I loved this post because it confuses the hell out of me. I agree, chivalry is certainly not necessary anymore. Women are independent, make a living, vote and stuff, we aren’t delicate flowers who can’t fend for themselves. That being said, I do like being treated like a lady. I would expect a guy to offer to pick up the tab, but I also wouldn’t mind paying it myself. There is the point about expectation though. There is a “small group” {and you know they are out there} who have unrealistic expectations after he picks up the tab. Like if you are ordering anything other than a salad, ie, steak or lobster, he’s getting lucky. I think therein lies some of my discomfort with chivalry too. I just don’t want to feel like I owe anybody.
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  Yeah I had that but took it out. I’m hoping the idea of getting lucky in exchange for dinner dies out eventually also. I agree about being treated like a lady. I do think the same should be expected from women though. And I’m not opening anyone’s car door…so there’s that.
  - Marjorie McAtee
    
    Ha, there are some dudes out there who think they have the right to expect sex after buying me ONE DRINK. Like, WTF do you think I am, a five-dollar whore?
- sevwinters
  
  Well for the record, Cari; I buy a mean lobster. Just sayin’
http://socialmediasun.com/ Adam Justice

I fuckin love cat blogs
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  I know, Justice. I was thinking of you when I wrote that. Cat blogs are rarely misunderstood…coming soon.
  - http://socialmediasun.com/ Adam Justice
    
    What do you get when you mix a fiery American – Asian bloggess with one of those cat blogs that has their cuteness ratio way too high? This video –
    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=226485690788171
    - http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
      
      hahaha omg that was cute. Thanks @etelligence:disqus
      - Marjorie McAtee
        
        Is this where I link to my hairless cats post?
http://twitter.com/ssunithi Sunithi Selvaraj

Idk, most guys do that chivalry stuff in the beginning. It’s part of the impress routine. But it needs to go further than that I think. A healthy respect in letting the other person be who they are speaks real chivalry to me. My husband was the least chivalrous of all the guys I dated. He’s a practical sort. Not sure he opens doors etc. In fact he walks so quickly am sometimes 2 steps behind but he cooks meals & takes the kids out when I need a break so I can rest and that speaks more chivalry to me than the open door kind. Of course I do enjoy the occasional flowers etc, but the other stuff is what matters. I can do without the fluff, but give me real stuff! Like they say: Chivalry without deeds is dead ! I agree with you that chivalry should be both sides, but if someone wants to pay for your dinner… not sure why you’d squabble about it Good post !
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  Seemed right. He’s a nice guy. I prefer gifts like shovelig the snow from my driveway over flowers, for sure.
http://twitter.com/MelissaTarot Melissa Tarot

I stopped dating someone because he didn’t say “Bless you” or something similar when I sneezed. Manners are important to me, so there’s that. I always offer to pay my half, and if they won’t let me, I offer to get the tip or drinks after. And if they won’t let me, that’s cool cuz I’m a single mama.
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  manners go a long way on both sides. I agree with the single mom thing, but I’d rather not set any sort precedent when dating that says “I’m a single mom. You’ll be taking care of me forever.” I’d rather not go out at all, if that’s the case. I agree with paying for something…if it’s allowed.
WowThatWasAwkward

I still open car doors for women, but yeah, only on the passenger side. That is rih-tarded to open the driver’s side door. I admit I don’t open car doors for guys, however, I hold open building doors to whomever I’m with, no matter what gender or age. As for paying tabs, I just don’t think about, male or female, friends or dates – I automatically grab the bill. Most of the time, whomever I’m with offers to pay or split at which time I’ll think about it and usually just say don’t worry about it. People I hang with a lot get a feel for when it’s their turn and beat me to the punch. It all works out in the long and frankly I really don’t care. When on dates, I always try to pay, but sometimes my date insists.

My rule of thumb is to do whatever is nice.
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  I don’t think I thought about it until now because of this blog post. Be careful what you blog. In re your thumb, well, that’s a good rule of thumb, Mr. WTWA.
http://ciaraballintyne.com Ciara Ballintyne

‘Chivalry’ in the modern age is more about a man making a woman feel special. I wouldn’t wait for a man to open a car door for me, but supposing he managed to get there and open it before I collected my handbag, shoes and coat (not outside the realm of possibility), I wouldn’t think it creepy. Women like to feel special. Men call it ‘smothering’ if a woman does it to them. And that’s why this sub-set of activities only applies to men and not women. It’s not about sexism or equality – it’s about doing what’s needed to make a relationship work. We all know men and women are different in that respect and we can’t apply the same techniques equally to both.
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  As a woman that probably prefers to slay her own dragons, I’ll trust your judgment. However, I know plenty of men who are scared of bugs, spiders and mice that probably wouldn’t mind if you took out the beasts yourself.
http://hypertransitory.com/ John Garrett

This one is so tough, because you’ve got to discover the other person’s stance on this all over again if you’re dating new people.

You can’t just assume a woman wants you to open her door, but it might be better to err on the side of caution.

Honestly I always opened doors and helped with the coats and paid for the night out because it seemed like the polite thing to do. Also I was usually the one asking for the pleasure of her company that night, so it only seemed right.

I never understood the whole “Expecting (whatever degree of) sex because you bought dinner”.

How do you calculate exactly how much is owed?

ME: “I splurged on that Happy Meal, soooo…”

HER: “Uh, so what? I didn’t eat it.”

ME: “Actually, you ate 5 french fries, so I expect 5 fries worth of action tonight.”

But again, what exactly would that equal out to? A peck on the cheek? A boob squeeze is probably ruled out, but maybe a side-boob arm press or something. Does the quality of the fries count at all?

See that’s why I don’t even bother with all that and just try to have a good time.

I forgot where I was going with this comment so I’ll wrap it up here, I guess…
- http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
  
  Well, John, I’m guessing you don’t get anything for a Happy Meal date. Except that little toy that comes inside. Then again, I’ve seen your instagram pics so I kinda get it. You are a busy comic guy, you are on the go… I really didn’t think men still excepted anything from dates. Hahahah…reason #4557.
  - http://hypertransitory.com/ John Garrett
    
    Nothing for a Happy Meal?? Come on, ladies! That’s not a very happy meal, in my opinion. Aw, shucks. I guess I’ll take it up with McDonalds marketing department.
    
    How about McNuggets? Gotta be worth something.
    - http://www.solitarymama.com/ Christina Majaski
      
      If it’s a 20 piece (or do they have 50 now?) Then again, not sure what kind of chick eats a box of 20 Mcnuggets.
      - http://hypertransitory.com/ John Garrett
        
        They have 50 piece now?? Damn. It’s like that, I guess.
        
        You make a good point. What kind of woman do I really want? Do I always want to be wondering if she’s only with me for my McNuggets?
Marjorie McAtee

Yes, he buys dinner. Especially if he asked you, because that means he has control over where you go and how much it costs. But also because it shows that he has 1) the ability to pay for a date, which is important, and if you’re broke because the economy is bad and you lost your job, sorry buddy, that sucks, but I’m still not going out with you; 2) some measure of generosity, also important; and 3) the willingness to put some effort into getting what he wants (ie: you), so you know he’s not lazy, also important. If he expects sex because he paid for one date (or two, or three, or anything, ever), he’s an assclown. I’ll start paying for stuff once an actual relationship is established, but until that time, I sort of look at it as him paying for me to consider that possibility (because I’m awesome. Also because of the reasons above). I don’t mind about a guy the opening door (I’ve never had anyone try to open my driver’s side car door, though, that’s weird), helping me with my coat (although I’d probably not see him back there and inadvertently make a scene), or pulling out my chair, or anything like that, although if a guy was really doing all of that stuff it would come off as ridiculously old fashioned. The one thing I can’t stand is when you’re walking along and dude rests his hand on your lower back to kind of steer you along. Fer realz, I will break a mofo’s wrist.